tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post868365780114502084..comments2023-06-02T05:29:11.423-07:00Comments on MHTableTennis: It's Time to Recognize that Ma Long is the Greatest Table Tennis Player of All TimeMHTableTennishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11133201322697272982noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-16149600518461076232020-07-17T06:37:53.432-07:002020-07-17T06:37:53.432-07:00Ma Long 3 wttc 1 Olympic 2 wc is 6 zhang jike 2 wt...Ma Long 3 wttc 1 Olympic 2 wc is 6 zhang jike 2 wttc 1 Olympic 2 wc is 5 waldner 2 wttc 1 Olympic 1 wc is 4 Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16365253273737536559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-88548784463595700822020-07-17T05:57:11.507-07:002020-07-17T05:57:11.507-07:00Ma Long went through six tournaments including two...Ma Long went through six tournaments including two world championships without dropping a single setAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16365253273737536559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-24960257582475651942020-04-26T13:44:56.669-07:002020-04-26T13:44:56.669-07:00IMHO, the results are what counts, not the coachin...IMHO, the results are what counts, not the coaching. If someone got better coaching to help him dominate, that doesn't count against him. If someone did not get great coaching, it doesn't make him a better player. It makes his achievement more worthy of respect, perhaps, but it doesn't make him GOAT.Calebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07300678024174923313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-77309035647261946882020-04-26T13:25:10.351-07:002020-04-26T13:25:10.351-07:00CorrectCorrectCalebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07300678024174923313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-11370560882114356702020-03-22T10:41:24.073-07:002020-03-22T10:41:24.073-07:00It is easier to drop a game under the 11 point sys...It is easier to drop a game under the 11 point system than the 21 points system because of the early scoreline pressure. Waldner also only had to play 4 matches to win the WC in 97 while players have to win at least 7 matches nowadays to win the WC. He also only had to face 1 Chinese player who was the lowest seed among the Chinese. Samsonov did all the dirty work for Waldner in the 97 WC. Finally, one perfect tournament is not enough to define the Goat status.Q Phamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03664002386685964552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-89117235171900539062019-09-27T10:28:35.545-07:002019-09-27T10:28:35.545-07:00What lack of titles?He has more WTTC medals than Z...What lack of titles?He has more WTTC medals than Zhang Jike for sure.Ma Long has one more WTTC gold than Waldner but Waldner has 2 silver in WTTC and 1 Olympic silver while Ma Long has 0 silver medals since he lost 3 times to Wang Hao.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-6481485798723523012019-09-22T11:46:10.184-07:002019-09-22T11:46:10.184-07:00Waldner faced more opposition, countless styles an...Waldner faced more opposition, countless styles and the Chinese didn't expose their players in minor tournaments,so the Europeans were not familiar with their games.Ma Long doesn't have face much opposition.He lost to Wang Hao three times and now that Zhang Jike is plagued by injuries the only competition he faces is from a one wing lefty penholder(Xu Xin) who has no backhand whatsoever and plays 1 mile behind the table,a 15 years old kid who hasn't develop a forehand yet,ancient Boll and Samsonov, Ovtcharov who can't a play a forehand to save his life and a 22 years old kid who has yet to polish his game.He has countless coaches,psychologists,statisticians,and training partners that emulate the playing style of foreigners.The Swedes didn't have a fraction of these resources yet they dominated the Chinese for years.Sorry,Ma Long will be forgotten just as Kong Linghui and Zhang Zhike are totally forgotten.McMilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02629416215485532986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-44165955761284799562019-04-26T18:15:17.643-07:002019-04-26T18:15:17.643-07:00But Waldner was never as dominated as Ma long and ...But Waldner was never as dominated as Ma long and Zhang Jike. You only tried to find an excuse for Waldner's lack of titles and highlighted the minor parts where Waldner got the edge over ML and Zhang Jike. Your comparison is way too bias.Q Phamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03664002386685964552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-7159602382567516562019-04-19T05:01:19.569-07:002019-04-19T05:01:19.569-07:00I agree with you. Ma Long is no doubt the best tab...I agree with you. Ma Long is no doubt the best table tennis players today.best ping pong playershttps://pingsunday.com/greatest-table-tennis-players-in-the-world/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-81238784679489484602019-04-14T23:41:48.237-07:002019-04-14T23:41:48.237-07:00ma long is betterma long is betterAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03531494458605981675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-18474513194115948372019-01-05T11:42:55.802-08:002019-01-05T11:42:55.802-08:00A lot of this depends on what you use as criteria....A lot of this depends on what you use as criteria. In tennis, Connors still has the most ATP tour title, bit nobody would consider him the greatest. My personal feeling is that this should be judged mainly based on World Championships and Olympics. Waldner did not care for smaller tournaments on would often experiment/test out parts of his game in smaller tournaments. If we restricts this to purely those, three players (Waldner, Ma Long, and Zhang Jike) have the same number of titles, but Waldner also has 3 runner up finishes. The world cup as not a big thing back in the 80s and 90s and if one looks at the winners, it includes many with multiple titles who never got close to winning world championships or olympic titles. I would still give slight edge to Waldner based on Olympics/World. Another win by Ma long would move him ahear.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08212708563729660107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-65835225752633930762018-12-28T22:43:53.138-08:002018-12-28T22:43:53.138-08:00Yes. Waldner, Z Jike are/were really great. Gems o...Yes. Waldner, Z Jike are/were really great. Gems of the game. I absolutely agree with tou @mhtabletennis. Ma Long has surpassed every player , has the most number of World Cups, World Tour Grand Finals' titles, and actually he already has more world tour titles than V Samsonov as Vladi has played many more number of years than Ma has.( hope it is understood by all). Ma will play until 2020 Tokyo and 2021 WTTC to the farthest. So by the age of 33, he will retire. So we can imagine how many more titles he could have won, had he played long like Waldner or Samsonov...... Undoubtedly, with due respect for Waldner and Jike, Ma is the Greatest Of All Time....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17175467420968765252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-38877114732723333082018-12-20T04:49:39.179-08:002018-12-20T04:49:39.179-08:00For all time greats, I remember only LI-FU-JUNG (L...For all time greats, I remember only LI-FU-JUNG (Lifurong). Thrice he came to the world championship finals in the challenge round era where he faced Chuang-tse-tung (Zhongzidong) who was also the sports minister of China. After liberalization, Zhongzidong faded away while Li was for a long time the coach of the Chinese team. Also Li was grudgingly given some honours ..ananthaphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17694211514500245442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-38183920829313512422018-11-02T21:37:56.483-07:002018-11-02T21:37:56.483-07:00First of all: nice blog.
Re: ML vs JOW, this migh...First of all: nice blog.<br /><br />Re: ML vs JOW, this might be like it was in tennis in 2000 - 2002. Sampras kept on his winning ways and many in the media started debating Laver vs Sampras for GOAT consideration (a tough debate that continued for a few years due to the different eras of the two players). Quite a few eventually came around and annointed Sampras as the GOAT. Unfortunately, fast forward just 6-7 years and he now was at risk of losing that status to Federer.<br /><br />IMO, ML is currently the GOAT. However, there is a decent probability that a few years from now, FZD may surpass him. The difference in play between FZD and other non-CNT players is massive & none from his generation at the CNT have impressed even half as much.<br /><br />BTW: the Waldner stats would look much worse if you included his H2H vs Ma Lin and Kong Linghui.Old Toadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14731819918313013805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-17867409461183078332018-10-24T03:18:32.452-07:002018-10-24T03:18:32.452-07:00I think that Ma Long is still the #1 player in tab...I think that Ma Long is still the #1 player in table tennis. And the Fan Zhendong is the next grand slam.best playerhttps://pingsunday.com/greatest-table-tennis-players-in-the-world/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-24544385198112024392018-10-21T23:29:30.535-07:002018-10-21T23:29:30.535-07:00Hey Matt!
Long time no talk! I'm getting back...Hey Matt!<br /><br />Long time no talk! I'm getting back into the swing of things on the website, maybe I'll commission another article or two? PingPongRulerhttp://www.pingpongruler.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-19461854876950835012018-09-30T17:40:33.250-07:002018-09-30T17:40:33.250-07:00Consider the World Cup record of each player.
Wald...Consider the World Cup record of each player.<br />Waldner attended 18 times between 1983 - 2004, reaching the final on three occasions and winning just once, in 1990. Additionally he won bronze once, making a total of four podium finishes. Five of Waldner's attempts resulted in a finish outside the top 8, his worst being 15th place in 1989. Waldner has 54 wins, 35 losses at the men's world cup, a 60% win rate.<br />Ma Long has attended 6 times from 2008 to 2017, and will not play this year in Paris. Every time he plays, Ma Long gets a medal. Two gold, one silver, and three bronze. I could analyse his record compared to other leading Chinese players over the years but this discussion is about Waldner vs Ma Long for GOAT. Ma Long has won 24 times and lost 6, for an 80% win rate.<br />This is just one event, but it is held every year and gives a good idea of a player's progression. Ma Long surely won't play into his 40s like Waldner did, but his achievements in a much smaller time frame speak for themselves. Nuff said.Matt Soltnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-72542233220186914092018-09-25T14:02:43.194-07:002018-09-25T14:02:43.194-07:00Agreed, i'd say Ma Long is the GOAT. He has be...Agreed, i'd say Ma Long is the GOAT. He has been completely dominant and his win ratio speaks for itself.Jonhttp://www.tablesportschamp.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-66778385053640021202018-09-23T17:25:43.829-07:002018-09-23T17:25:43.829-07:00Yes the Chinese National Games is often noted as t...Yes the Chinese National Games is often noted as the hardest table tennis tournament to win. 3 players in the top 10 is solid, but if you took the top 32 players from the Chinese National Games and put them out on the world tour, then under the old ranking system you would have a disaster for the rest of the world. <br /><br />I'm absolutely not discounting Waldner or Sweden, like I said, I was firmly on Waldner's side of the debate for a very long time, but recently I genuinely believe that Ma Long has surpassed him. <br /><br />MHTableTennishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11133201322697272982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-6897441460025645792018-09-23T00:45:53.869-07:002018-09-23T00:45:53.869-07:00Winning the Chinese National Games is an achieveme...Winning the Chinese National Games is an achievement but the "Hardest TT tournament? Waldner won the equivalent in Sweden, you cannot discount the strength of the Swedish National team during Waldner's era. Sweden had 3 players in the Top 10, and dominated the Chinese National team. Sweden's National Team, (Not just Waldner) revolutionized the modern TT game. JO was the best player on arguably the best team during his era. He also played the best on the biggest stage.<br />The chinese coaches called him too old, past his prime right before he had his perfect World Title run ...Ma Long? He couldn't get past Wang HaoPhanpharehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08027048627611817589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-54759631464408378712018-09-19T15:05:37.395-07:002018-09-19T15:05:37.395-07:00GOAT is not a term that you can throw around witho...GOAT is not a term that you can throw around without some evidence or stats? Um, look up dude - my article isn't devoid of information. Sticks around a few more years? Is being world number 1 for a record 64 months not enough? 32 months in a row at number 1. The way you people measure things is laughable. Most imaginative winner shots? Why would that make you GOAT - ok I changed my mind I've decided that Quentin Robinot is not the GOAT...come on. Does he have most amazing serves, serve returns? <br /><br />Here is my answer. He wins with what he has. He wins on an unparalleled level. He's won all the majors, including two Chinese National Games - THE HARDEST table tennis tournament on the planet. Aside from Samsonov (who has won lots of Challenge Series tours), he has won the next highest number of World Tours (probably the most high level ones), he holds jointly the record for highest number of pro tours won in a row (5), he holds the record for the highest consecutive months at world number 1 (32) and total months at world number 1 (64).<br /><br />I find some of the responses to this piece baffling really.MHTableTennishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11133201322697272982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-52251722260662715262018-09-19T11:51:36.550-07:002018-09-19T11:51:36.550-07:00JOJOAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10944163898477098191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-6109680327526324422018-09-19T11:49:34.706-07:002018-09-19T11:49:34.706-07:00My vote is for JO. He did this overcoming the migh...My vote is for JO. He did this overcoming the mighty Chinese team 4 times at the worlds. That alone could be enough. Yes he had plenty of losses but the players played way more back then. Team events and singles were at every tourney.<br />Ma Long has the Chinese machine to back him. JO had the tiny Swedish contingent and limited financial support lie Ma does.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10944163898477098191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-84025651596334778022018-09-19T08:40:36.555-07:002018-09-19T08:40:36.555-07:00"He was great for the 40mm ball, not so much ..."He was great for the 40mm ball, not so much for the 40+." I really don't follow here. Perhaps you accidentially typed it backwards. Ma Long won his Grand Slam with the 40+ ball. Back when they were playing standard 40mm, that was when ZJK was in his prime.<br /><br />38mm era (I'll take Liu Guoliang in his prime vs anybody)<br />40mm era (a short era but ZJK was pretty dominate here)<br />40+ era (still a short time span thus far but seems as though Ma Long has this title as of right now) <br />Although it took him a long time to get here and FZD is almost right there with him already at the age of 21 so we'll see who wins out in the long term.soper1979@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13662641608485971384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3664755093752059881.post-16312150784455085882018-09-19T08:23:47.621-07:002018-09-19T08:23:47.621-07:00I would vote NO on that for several reasons. First...I would vote NO on that for several reasons. First of all, has he won the most titles? No, others have won more. Has he nerves of steel? No, in fact he's quite vulnerable for a world champion, he has choked a few times, his coaches have had to work with him on that. Does he have the most amazing serves? No. Serve returns? No. Most wicked imaginative winner-shots? Well sort of, but others have as good or better. Any glaring weaknesses? Well actually, I've noticed that when he is wide on the forehand and he needs to come back to the backhand he can't do it. We've seen this in many highlight videos and I've noticed it in several matches as well. He's great at the running forehnad, but not the running backhand. Has he adapted well to changes over time? Not really. He was great for the 40mm ball, not so much for the 40+. Why he is so successful? He's just really stable, good serves, spinny forehnad, and dependable backhand. But it's a stretch to say "GOAT", I would say he has potential to be the GOAT IF, and that's a big IF, he wins another world championship with the 40+ ball, sticks around a few more years, and really dominates everyone. But lately he's been losing to quite a few players, Harimoto, Liam Pitchford, and so on. GOAT is not a light term you can't throw that around without some evidence, some stats, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com